Ep 67 Jude Field & Jenny Cunningham on Illuminating Midwifery Research: The RCMs Role in Collaboration and Priority Setting

Ep 67 http://ibit.ly/Re5V Jude Field & Jenny Cunningham on Illuminating Midwifery Research: The RCMs Role in Collaboration and Priority Setting

@PhDMidwives  #MidTwitter  #research  @JudeField, @djennymidwife @MidwivesRCM

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Are you ready to illuminate the path of research in the world of midwifery? Join us for an enlightening session with Jude Field and Jenny Cunningham, esteemed midwives and research advisors from the Royal College of Midwives (RCM). Together, we shed light on the RCM's phenomenal efforts to uplift midwifery research and practice. Learn about their recently unveiled treasure-trove, a repository of midwifery PhD theses, and an impending project that aims to identify key research areas in midwifery, offering insights from clinical work, education, and global perspectives. 

We  highlight the essence of teamwork and consensus in determining research priorities. This discussion underscores the necessity of including midwives, student midwives, maternity support workers, and service user organizations in the process, creating a fertile environment for shared learning. 

Lastly, we spotlight the crucial role of research in midwifery with Helena, a third year student midwife. Helena delves into her dissertation on factors contributing to women's psychological birth trauma, emphasizing the impact of care provider interaction. This conversation reinforces the critical role of research and the need for more midwives in education and research roles. Join us in this enlightening journey. The conversation is far from over, so feel free to reach out to the RCM's research email for an extended discussion. The world of midwifery awaits your curiosity and contribution.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

And welcome to Through the Pinard, your conversational podcast talking to midwives around the world about the research they are doing to improve midwifery practice. This research can range from small quality improvement programs and projects to those starting partway through or just finishing their postgraduate studies, and to those that have been there, done that and got the t-shirt. So settle back and enjoy the conversation and remember you can continue the conversation on Twitter after you finish listening. Thank you for joining me today. A little bit different in that instead of having one midwife talk about their journey into their PhD, I'm actually going to talk about two midwives and the work that they are doing with the Royal College of Midwives to help support those who are doing research, both PhDs, postdocs and anywhere and everywhere levels across that. So, jude, would you like to introduce yourself please?

Speaker 2: 1:18

Oh, thank you, liz. Hi everyone. Yes, so my name is Jude Fields. As Liz has introduced, I'm one of the research advisors for the RCM in the UK. I do have a PhD and that was something that I did in finishing in 2018. I looked at home birth decision making and I also used to work clinically in my local health board for I think, six years, and I was also a midwifery lecturer in my local university for a different six years. So that's been kind of my background before moving into working as a research advisor for the RCM, and I do that half time. Now I have another part-time job where I'm a qualitative research assistant on a perinatal mental health trial that's running across England.

Speaker 1: 2:07

Oh, cool, nice, and Jenny, would you like to introduce yourself please?

Speaker 3: 2:13

Hi Liz thank you. Hello everyone. I'm Jenny Cunningham and I job share the role of research advisor with Jude. I qualified in 2007 and I worked as a clinical midwife and then I got into research and did a master's as well, working clinically. As Jude said, we work half time. In my other half of my time now I'm doing a PhD part-time but the topic of weight stigma, so I'm really enjoying that journey as well.

Speaker 1: 2:40

What was the stimulus for the RCM to create your positions?

Speaker 3: 2:47

Well, I'll start with this Liz.

Speaker 3: 2:49

I was employed, I think, but over four years ago and it was a new position as a research advisor, because the RCM really wanted to focus on becoming more active in research in different ways and really supporting midwives to get involved in research. So my job was to help develop a research strategy, which I did. So this runs to next year and it was developed with a range of kind of you know what we call stakeholders in the UK, so midwives, research midwives, members of the RCM and wider and leaders within midwifery too, and the aim is really to promote midwifery research and evidence-based practice, to support our members and other midwives too, to build a stronger research and knowledge base and then, really importantly, to influence systems, to influence funders and influence kind of policymakers and embed research across the midwifery profession.

Speaker 3: 3:39

So it's kind of a big job, but I think our real focus has really been to focus on supporting those midwives who want to take a step into the research world, as well as kind of supporting other layers too.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Now is there a current call for expressions of interest to give feedback on what the future directions should be, as well for the next plan and strategy. Did I see that on social media?

Speaker 3: 4:07

At the moment we're working with an occurrence strategy, so I think the expressions of interest will be about the project we'll be talking about a bit later, our prioritization project Talk about. We will. We know, next year we need to kind of work up our next strategy and that's what we will be certainly looking out reaching out to people to help us decide how to kind of formulate that, because for us, what we need to do is what our members want us to do. That's really important.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Absolutely, and you said we'll get back to that. We've got a couple of things we're going to talk about first. So one of the things that you have launched quite recently is now. I know that it was starting off as a UK basis, but all of us internationally kept saying can we join? Can we join, can we join that you now have the repository for midwifery PhD thesis?

Speaker 2: 4:54

Yeah, we do so. That kind of launched approximately a year ago now and, as you said, liz, we were initially just looking to the UK. So four countries obviously Northern Ireland, england, scotland, wales which, which we have achieved and it's fantastic we've got 30 PhD or doctorate level thesis now on it. It is really great and whenever you kind of look across them again which I have done this morning it's just amazing to see the breadth of interest and work that midwives have undertaken and I suppose, unsurprisingly, the majority of the work is looking with a clinical focus, but not all, and we've got some really great examples there from education as well. So you mentioned we're going global and yes, we are. We are predominantly UK at the moment. We do have a thesis on there from a midwife talking about her work in Papua New Guinea, and I suppose, if it could be possible, that this podcast will help us to reach more midwives across the world.

Speaker 1: 6:03

We would really love to be able to share your work and I think we all know the traditional databases that we can search we've got the Cochrane Library, we've got all of the the kind of the data bases. But to actually have one place to actually go through, which will increase and be easier to search and to kind of like change as as it goes through, but to actually just scroll through and know these are all midwives who have done this work and you can sit there and read and kind of you don't have to read the whole thesis, you can sit there and kind of read the abstract and flick to the discussion and stuff. But that, I think, is just a magic little resource to give ideas, to get inspiration for doing your own kind of research and studies, but at any year level.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Definitely, and we've had some lovely feedback. Actually, we've had midwives who said that they've looked to the collection in terms of methods or methodology and ideas, and we've also had a midwife share with us that she found one of her PhD examiners by looking at this collection in terms of midwives, with sort of specific knowledge base in an area, so that that's just magic. That's excellent, right. So here it's being, it's being used as a collection.

Speaker 1: 7:22

It'll be interesting over the next few years to kind of see and keep that feedback and actually see what it's being used as. And I can tell you, in a couple of years time you'll be having another entry from Australia. I can definitely be putting mine in there and I'll be promoting it from here. One of the other things that you've also done, which is quite new as well, which goes so you've got the studies that have been done, the PhDs that have been done, but now you've got a map of research that's being done.

Speaker 3: 7:55

Yeah, and I can talk about this list. So we created the map this year and we launched it at our research conference, which is really exciting and a bit like the thesis collection. We started it as a kind of UK focus, but now we've extended it out. So we have now researchers from Australia, from Papua New Guinea, from Ethiopia, and there are other pending too. So the map isn't just for midwives, the map is for any maternity researcher, or maybe one of the researchers, some of the interested in a topic, in a particular area, either a geographical area or a topic like for me it would be weight stigma. But it's not also just for professionals. It could be any kind of discipline, academic discipline too. So the idea behind the map and I think in some ways, as students explain the thesis collections, doing the same thing, it's an opportunity to network.

Speaker 3: 8:45

And this is the one of the things that I was told when I started working for the RCM those midwives who are in really good connections already or aren't maybe more senior academically, the people starting at the beginning, which we've all done and I'm still doing, don't have those networks. It feels like I'm feeling a really lonely place, tram to kind of find your feet and finding a topic, finding a peer or a supervisor. So the map for us is really about connecting people together and it's been going a few months, but I haven't checked this one to see how many entries, but I know we've got quite a few on there and, as I say, we're extending out globally. So this is a really kind of effective way that the RCM can kind of help people bring people together, and it seems to be working pretty well too. We're getting a good response from it. People are very nice about it, very good feedback.

Speaker 1: 9:35

And I think it says something about the midwifery community, where your obviously main focus is going to be locally, it's going to be within the UK, but midwifery itself, globally is small and there's a desire to want to be connected. And we found this on social media that people, we have our own little community on there and it is that you're doing something, you're doing something or let's do it together, because we know through research that multi sites have more power than just one site as well, and so, if you can, this is your experience over here, this is my experience here, has it surprised you, though, how much international interest has been about the repository and the map?

Speaker 3: 10:24

I wouldn't say it's surprised.

Speaker 3: 10:25

I just feel, I suppose I felt why didn't we think of this right at the beginning? I suppose we are a UK organisation, so we need to support what happens in the UK. But, as you say, research is across boundaries and you can just continue to research for as long as you want to, can't you? So why not globally? And yeah, we've been. I think we were. All three of us were at the International Confederation of Advice trying on Congress earlier this year in Bali, which is fantastic, and we had lots of kind of good conversations there with my advice from around the world about the work we're doing, and we had really good, positive feedback, didn't we, jude?

Speaker 2: 11:02

Yeah, we really did, we really did. And I suppose, with the global focus, I suppose even that in a way is supporting UK mid-wise, because it's helping us. If we are looking for collaborations globally, that's a great place to start, perhaps to see who's on there across the world if you don't have those connections yet. So, yeah, lots of uses, I think.

Speaker 1: 11:27

I think for the countries like the UK with Australia, new Zealand to a degree we're very multicultural countries, so the women that we're looking after we've got a great range of nationalities and experiences. So I think for us it actually is. I think it's really up to us to learn about midwifery in other countries, because that's the experience that the women are coming to. If they've had their babies in other countries and they come to us that their experience is what they bring and their expectations. So knowing that we have some similarities around the world and how we can deal with some of that and you only get that when you're talking with people across the borders.

Speaker 2: 12:08

That's really interesting. I have to admit, I hadn't sort of thought about that perspective, but yes, I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 12:16

It comes from my teacher's hat, I always kind of, because Adelaide's a very small but it's a very multicultural place, and so you have women who've had like three or four babies in other countries or in refugee camps or kind of like in different healthcare systems, and it's like, well, this is what ours is and this is what the expectation is, and you've got to know what that could be kind of an advantage or a disadvantage. So what have you got coming up now? Then You've got your future plans, your future wishes, and what new releases have you got coming up?

Speaker 2: 12:50

Well, I suppose we've got a couple of things which our big new release is our prioritisation project. We've also got if I could just quickly mention, we've got our second small research awards, opening up at some point later this year the exact dates to be confirmed probably similar to what we did last year. So that's been a fantastic little project for us in terms of encouraging and supporting midwives who aren't yet established within any sort of research trajectory in their career, just as if they're toe in the water.

Speaker 1: 13:29

And these are purely. These ones are actually purely for UK based midwives.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Yes, yeah, this is just for our CM members in the yes, yes a member benefit for us and it was really well received and I think feedback we've had from applicants, both those who were successful in their categories and those who didn't actually win They've still found it really beneficial to take part, which has been fantastic for us to hear, because you always hope it's going to something will be a positive experience and I think it really has been. And if anyone wants to have a look at this, if you look on our research hub, you'll see some three brilliant videos that the winners did and have shared and given permission from hub. Yeah, so yeah, we'll be. We'll be launching that again later this year.

Speaker 1: 14:17

It's always important to get up to those connections and to get a start and a taster to see, kind of, is this what I want to do and not to do it alone.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3: 14:28

Yeah, we didn't make the task to a resider that we asked them. There were three categories of student midwife awards, then an early career midwife award, then a midwife orders kind of post. Revalidations are going to three years into qualification and the task for the student midwife was to write, to meet, to connect, to talk to a midwife researcher, any type. It could be someone locally. Some of you could be a professor you've heard of, you know you could cold call someone and write a reflection about that conversation and what they could take their practice. And then the both the midwives always had the same it was to imagine that money was no object and when that be wonderful, right to short 1000 word research proposal on the topic of your interest. And we had some amazing, really interesting submissions and we do it as a real joy to read them.

Speaker 1: 15:23

Yeah, yeah, and they could quite nicely actually link into your priorities, because if that's the issues that they're on there in their world that they're wanting to solve, and if there's a kind of a theme or a pattern in those, then that can also be is another way of looking at what some of the priorities are.

Speaker 3: 15:44

Yeah, absolutely, and we want to reach out to all those people you know, the people who submitted and wider, about what people's priorities are. Before we talk about the priority project, I just mentioned that we've got some research EDEN modules coming too. So we've been working with the UK based university to create three different modules, kind of fairly entry level but about research, but focused on midwifery only, and they'll again the fact that'll be for our members only but they'll be released later in the year. So it's kind of watched this space. So we're very excited to do.

Speaker 1: 16:17

Well, that could be something from a higher level. I know there was some conversations with RCM, acm and, I think, canada at one stage about sharing some of these resources as well. So I think that's something at a higher level that the conversations in the early stages, because I think that would actually be quite good as well. So, coming possibly from the RCM similar, that we share some of these midwifery focus because there's some great resources around. So, as opposed to just you guys using it, other people could use it too and also then add in the comments and that could be interesting within the discussions of some of the asynchronous discussions as well.

Speaker 3: 16:56

Most of our resources are there for everyone. We have a few projects which which are for members only and the research awards small research awards is one and the the e-learning modules is another, but most of the resource. We got a research hub which anyone can look at. It's on the RCM website If you search under research and funding. We've got lots of resources there which anyone can use. Anyone can find. So please have a look. But there are a couple of things which are kind of behind the table, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 17:25

Which is fair enough, because you still need to support your members and give them a member service. Otherwise, what's the point of being a member?

Speaker 3: 17:32

Indeed.

Speaker 1: 17:33

So what else are you doing apart from the e-learning?

Speaker 3: 17:38

This is the last big project of our current strategy and again it's something the RCM has been asked for over the years. You know what are our priorities for research, so we've kind of been looking in how best to do this and put out there. First it's a UK focus.

Speaker 3: 17:53

So, again it's going to be UK, focused on kind of NHS and education here in terms of maternity and midwifery research. We'll be working with the James Linde Alliance and the James Linde Alliance is an organisation based in the UK but I know it works globally and it's kind of a non-profit organisation and it receives money from the NIHR which is the kind of NHS research arm. So it's funded by kind of taxpayers money and we're applying James Linde Alliance advisor and the role of the James Linde Alliance is to do priority setting partnerships that's what they call them PSPs, priority setting partnerships, which is kind of what we're doing. Mostly there's a focus on health conditions or maybe a particular area, but we're kind of doing more broad around midwifery maternity, which is a bit more unusual but that kind of process has been done before. So we're going to be working with midwives, student midwives, maternity support workers and women and representatives of service user organisations. That can be our kind of collaboration. So it's a way of reaching a priority. It's kind of our top. We're going to go for a top 10, our top 10 for a priority, our top 10 priorities in maternity and midwifery research. And again it's going to be a collaborative kind of consensus budding process, which is what the James Linde Alliance does. So we're really excited about this, jude, and our leading this project. We've, of course, got support from internally, from the RCM, from our line manager, from our kind of executive board, and I think, jude, you're going to talk a bit about the kind of nitty gritty of who's involved in the terms of the project.

Speaker 2: 19:28

Yeah, sure I can talk about, about that. Yeah, so, as Jenny's just said, jenny and I are leading the project, which feels very exciting and quite a responsibility. But we do have support, you know, from our line manager, sarah Webb, and also Dr Yana Richens as well, who's head of midwifery in Liverpool here in the UK, but she's also one of the NIHR senior research leaders, so she will also be supporting us during the process. So kind of anyone who's not familiar with the James Linde approach. They suggest that you have a project steering group. We know we've had kind of 60 or so applications brilliant which has just been wonderful and then select who we would like to work with in the steering group.

Speaker 2: 20:21

So to do that that leads me on to talk about our review group as well. We've added in an extra layer because we really wanted to tap into the excellent knowledge base that we have here in the UK in terms of our midwifery professorial body, and you know the RCM is very much. It's important to us that we have a UK wide approach. So we've added in this professorial layer, working with three midwifery professors one from Scotland, dr Helen Chain, professor Helen Chain. One from England, professor Benora Hunley, and one from Wales, professor Julia Sanders. So they're very kindly supporting us and helping us just to ensure academic rigor, and we're also going to be having a conversation with our JLA advisor.

Speaker 1: 21:11

You're also using that to develop a nice little protocol that any other country can also use and replicate in the future?

Speaker 2: 21:22

Very true, yes, we are. It does feel quite groundbreaking really taking this project on which I think is where that sense of responsibility comes from to do it as well as we possibly can. And it feels like we're in a really good place with the review group, with a really robust steering group to guide us. And then, thirdly, we have project partners and this is again a James Lind sort of requirement for there to use their sort of methods, and that is, organisations from across the UK can express their interest and register to be a project partner with the project and that just means that their organisation can be a bit more visible in terms of the project going forward and their offering support to the project. And it's going to help us, I think, having as broad a reach as we can to help them reach their membership, to make sure as many people as possible have got the opportunity to give their views.

Speaker 1: 22:24

And you've got over the last. Well, it comes out spasmodically, but over the last few years you've had some really big trust reports and findings come out that have really looked deeply into the current healthcare system and we know that the healthcare system has changed from COVID and looking at where to go in the future. So is this a five year plan priorities or a 10 year plan?

Speaker 2: 22:58

That's a really interesting question actually, liz. So we aren't setting in stone the kind of yearly trajectory, but we are thinking that this could be a really interesting piece of work, an important piece of work to redo as the maternity landscape changes, as you've sort of just suggested. So in terms of the James Linn's priority setting it's I think a couple of PSP groups are now replicating or redoing the PSP because obviously in their fields things have moved on. So yeah, we are discussing that and kind of feeling within the RCM that it might be something that we will want to redo in the future when it feels necessary and appropriate.

Speaker 1: 23:43

And I know that we've just done up in part of a roadmap for looking at Indigenous and around midwifery and health care and looking at priorities.

Speaker 1: 23:52

One of the things that they did is we all whiteboarded what we wanted, what we thought was a priority that needed to be looked at. They did all the crunching of it, but then they did short-term goals within kind of like a year, middle goals between a couple of years and then long-term goals that are going to take, so between what for needing to be done or could be done in a year, kind of like two to five years, and then five to ten years. So looking at that and then breaking down within that or this is the overall aim, but we need to get this done first before we get this done first and looking at that. So that was really good to help break it up and to make it into kind of like I know bite-sized chunks that were achievable. So you didn't get so demoralised. It's like we still haven't changed this yet, but we've made this little win that sounds like a really interesting piece of work to be involved in.

Speaker 1: 24:41

What other plans have you got? What other dreams have you got that are kind of like blue sky plans?

Speaker 3: 24:48

I just wanted to return to the project just to let listeners hear a bit about the timeline. I think that might be because it's not a quick fix. So I think if your listeners kind of expect us to have a result next year, they'll be disappointed because the Jameson is a really kind of systematic, rigorous, and we have a very transparent process.

Speaker 3: 25:07

So, and it's done through surveys.

Speaker 3: 25:10

So there's two surveys will be released over the length of the project and the first survey will be released in January 2024, so next year because the steering group, who will be meeting in the autumn, needs to help, needs to be involved in the construction of that survey.

Speaker 3: 25:27

So we can't there's no kind of quick release of that and that will be going out to midwives, student midwives, maternity support workers, women families, service user groups, really kind of we hope really really broad spread and deep spread, using all our networks that we can to make sure people learn about it. And that first survey is kind of very open ended, not at all in research language, asking for maybe your three, either three priorities or three areas of importance or what's most important to use. So again, the wording needs to be decided and then all those results come back in, all those responses, and Jude and I, together with support from Yana and Sarah, will then be analyzing that data, wearing it together, and we also were very lucky in the RC and we have the services of librarians to work with them. So they'll be working with us to check evidence. As you mentioned Cochrane already. So what evidence is out there already in terms of these topics that actually aren't gaps in?

Speaker 3: 26:26

evidence but maybe people don't know that the answer is already there. So there'll be lots of that too in throwing work. And then the second survey goes out in September of next year and that will be kind of that'll be well the James Lynn seems to suggest between 50 and 70. So many many research questions and people are asked to prioritize those statements or questions and there's different ways of doing that. So we haven't. Again, the steering group will be instrumental in deciding that process.

Speaker 3: 26:52

That's kind of I find that quite an exciting moment, because then we're releasing all the kind of feeding back, what we've been told, and then all those respondents come back up with their priorities. However, we decided to do and again, jude and I are responsible for the analyzing with some supports, and then the final element of this is a workshop which we hope very much will be in person. That'll be in January 2025. So hopefully we'll be speaking to you again maybe around then, and that's when the top 10 priorities gets kind of drilled down into and decided upon, and then we'll be publishing a paper early 20 May we're thinking May 25, publishing our priorities and then really disseminating because we want us, as I point, doing it this process, if you don't influence.

Speaker 4: 27:34

We really want to influence people who fund.

Speaker 3: 27:37

So we have our big funders, like the NIHR and others, and, of course, smaller funders. The RCM supports or part funds are well-being within awards.

Speaker 3: 27:46

So we want to obviously use the priorities to influence the topics that people will be applying to use, and, a bit like you've mentioned, for the small research award list, we can use these in different ways. We want all our partners and supporters to promote these and celebrate them and champion the priorities too. And, finally, we want to work out a way of kind of auditing or kind of working out how successful they'll be in the future, and that's something we need to work on with the research community. How do we ensure or find out how successful they've been? What are our measures? So that's what we'll be doing in the future and then, of course, after the project has been published, and if we want to do funding, then funding needs to have a return of investment.

Speaker 1: 28:35

If you're going to give a certain amount of money £100,000 or something like that you want to know what you're getting back for it or what it's going to contribute, because if it's not going to have worthwhile, measurable outcomes, then I'll give it to this organisation over here who actually can measure it, and I'll give it to you. Then I'll give it to this organisation over here who actually can measure it, and I think that's something we possibly need to do better in midwifery, or, if it is happening, we need to make it more overt.

Speaker 3: 29:06

I think we've got a lot of work to do.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Haven't we, within maternity research, really to sort of shout about the brilliant work that people are doing?

Speaker 1: 29:15

Yeah, but we need to start somewhere, which is really cool, and I think this is also when we're looking at. We can't rely on government funding because they've got their own election kind of they get elected every three years. We're going to give it to the money that can give us some votes and give us some outcomes within three years, and we know that midwifery has kind of like a longer period in that, and especially within maternity, that it can be intergenerational. But tapping into some of the private philanthropists and getting them on board, if we can say this is what and this is who's behind it and this is where we're going, I think that's somewhere for the future that we can actually get some funding that can actually help support with midwifery research.

Speaker 3: 29:55

That's interesting different culture in the UK and that is the NIHR is separate to the government and it is. I'm not saying that midwifery has a big slice of the pie, because actually it doesn't, but I think from what you're saying, I think maybe the culture is different in Adelaide than it is.

Speaker 1: 30:16

Well, different countries, different countries have got different cultures, and that's looking at where it comes from.

Speaker 3: 30:20

yeah, so this project we're really excited about and it's due to say we have a certain amount of trepidation because we really want to get it right, of course, and this is going to be our main part of our role, I think, for the next two years, dude. We've kind of said other projects will keep ticking over and there are things in the pipeline. We've mentioned about the e-learning, research modules my brain went and we'll be repeating a small research awards, etc. But I think, on the whole, this is what we're focusing on, but also, knowing what we're like, we also see opportunities, certainly, dude, and think, oh, we can do this. So there may be other things coming along which we haven't anticipated, because we're kind of we can work fairly flexibly, which is nice, you know, we can kind of see an opportunity and bring it in. So there may be other things, but, on the whole, this project is what we really need to spend our time on to make sure it works well.

Speaker 1: 31:18

And, as we've learned in 2020, we never know what's going to happen in the world. You don't know what's going to be coming up over the horizon. That could be just too good to not grab onto, or something that does change our priorities again. Yeah, absolutely, which could be both good and kind of like frustrating as well. Okay, so we also have another guest with us today who's been kind of like listening and sitting nicely in the background. Would you like to introduce yourself, please, helena?

Speaker 4: 31:51

Yeah, thank you. So my name is Helena. I am a third year student midwife at the University of Suffolk and I'm currently spending my elected placement with the RCM.

Speaker 1: 32:01

So when you did your very first research topic as an undergraduate, were you dreading it? Were you excited, Because I know a lot of my students when I said who actually wants to be here? And hardly anyone puts their hands up because they dread research?

Speaker 4: 32:16

Yeah, so I found it really daunting. I think throughout my training we constantly learn about the importance of evidence-based practice and current midwifery issues, but really only upon starting the dissertation is when we really learn about, like the real fundamentals of research. So I think when you first start it can be really scary. But for me doing my dissertation, which I'm still currently in the middle of, it's been a real turning point and I found an interest in research that I didn't really know that I do have and I feel that, with the right sort of encouragement and support and sort of awareness as well of the different roles in research in midwifery is really important as well, because there's a real focus on working clinically when we qualify. But then I think also knowing about the different roles that are available in research, especially when doing your dissertation, is quite encouraging.

Speaker 1: 33:10

And when you're doing your dissertation on. This is the nerdy part that I get excited about.

Speaker 4: 33:14

I'm doing it on the factors that contribute to women's psychological birth trauma.

Speaker 1: 33:20

Oh, very important and very global. What stage are you up to at the moment?

Speaker 4: 33:27

So I'm just doing my analysis at the moment. It's a literature review, and the reason I chose the topic is because I was seeing so many different women suffering from birth trauma, so it's something that I definitely wanted to look at have you found.

Speaker 1: 33:43

Is there one thing that you can share that you've found so far that has surprised you?

Speaker 4: 33:51

I think one thing that I found is so I was expecting to find things like the obstetric intervention and things, but then also the main thing that came up was like care provider interaction and lack of encouragement and lack of support. And it did surprise me really because I think going into this profession, we really do it to provide care and support. So I think that the number of women in these studies that weren't receiving that it was surprising.

Speaker 1: 34:24

And that's such a modifiable thing that we can change. That prevented from happening, which is the most astounding thing. So what have you learned about research whilst you've been doing your placement with the RCM, with the research department?

Speaker 4: 34:42

Yeah, so it's been really interesting listening in about the project today. Actually, it's my first time I've met with Jude and Jenny and it's like learning about the research e-learning modules. That's definitely something I'm going to go and look into and it's really opened my eyes up about the research agenda and everything that the RCM can do to promote research as well. Looking at the RCM career framework, that was really interesting because it had all the different roles you can go into as a midwife and the different roles in lecturing and research and the encouragement that they provide for their members to go into. That is really good.

Speaker 1: 35:24

And if you look at if you haven't already, then reading the 2021 State of Midwifery report and looking at where the focus is, and we do need not only more clinical and service, we need more governance and leadership, we need more research and we need more education. So, whilst there's a lot of discussion and unfortunately it still keeps happening on social media that a lot of people think you can only be a midwife if you're clinical and catching we actually need people who identify as midwives, who are doing the education, who are doing the research, because we do evidence-based practice, so we need people to create the evidence, not just purely in midwifery, but working into disciplinary as well. So, when you've been on your clinical placements, has research been something that you've known has been happening in the areas that you're working? Has people been talking about the research projects that have been happening in those areas, or is it something that doesn't get talked about?

Speaker 4: 36:24

I think it is something that doesn't really get talked about a lot unless there is a study where the midwives are having to do so. At the moment we've got a study going on where the midwives are having to do like take blood samples so to know about that study. But if that isn't happening, then we don't really have, don't really see the research team much or really know about what is going on.

Speaker 1: 36:46

So that's something in the future I think we need to get better at. Is the research team kind of keeping that contact and those local champions kind of keeping up to date so people know the value of it? So are you going to continue on with your research career in the future, do you think?

Speaker 4: 37:01

Yeah, I genuinely am very interested in research and I'm going to look at getting my dissertation published and I definitely want to go into that.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Absolutely, and I think dissemination of information is the key thing, whether it's dissemination through podcasts, whether it's through conference proceedings, publication. If we don't share, we're all going to try and reinvent the wheel and we're never going to advance. And we know that we need to share because someone's like I've had that problem. I didn't try that, but I've tried this, so good luck. Thank you. I'm very aware that you all have keen on time. Is there anything that you would like to finish up saying is a short, sharp, little special episode before we go, jude.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Oh, nothing that I can think of, liz, other than to say thank you again for inviting us along and it's been really great to share our work from the UK and hopefully it will be of interest and of help to people, to your listeners.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Absolutely, jenny.

Speaker 3: 38:06

I'd like to nothing to add but to say thank you very much, and if anyone wants to get in touch with us, we have a generic research email box research at RCMorguk and please get in touch if you want to share anything you're doing around the world. We're always keen to talk to researchers. It makes our job. It's what our job is about, really, isn't it? So please get in touch if you have anything to say and then you want us to do anything to share. But it's lovely to hear Helen. There's talk about how dissertation and also how interested you are in research too, helen, that was great to hear.

Speaker 4: 38:39

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 38:40

I think it's really great to hear that you need everyone to be interested in some level and people don't realise that they do research. If they're going to buy a new car or a new bike or a new TV, they actually do research to look at it.

Speaker 1: 38:51

So it's something that is alien to us.

Speaker 1: 38:53

It's just the words that sometimes we use, like epistemology and all of that kind of stuff that get in your head and kind of cause you to go rocking in the corner.

Speaker 1: 39:03

And also the thing is that anyone, from any country or any, there's nothing stopping people in their own hospital units, within their own birth suites, for creating their own little research clubs to share the information and sit and talk about it. I know we joke about journal clubs, but there is actually a value in talking about the latest information that comes up and everyone having a different little interest and sharing that. And that also helps with looking at what has been published and kind of looking at do we need to change practice? But also countries actually starting their own little focuses as well, and then kind of looking to you guys for support and how do you set that up and what's it required to help set up and support countries as well. So I thank you very much for your time and for the work that you're doing. Anything that increases research is obviously going to have my support as well. So thank you very much. Thank you, liz, thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 39:58

You'll find all the links on Twitter, instagram and on the podcast website. If you are a midwife and you would like to share your research, your postgraduate studies or even the quality improvement projects you are doing now, then email me at throughthepinardatgmailcom, send me a tweet or send me a DM.